Obama says he will drain the swamp of cynicism. Hey, I'm all for it.
It's high-sounding rhetoric and I say more power to him, if he can do
it.
But what are the reasons for cynicism? One is that people don't live
up to their high sounding ideals. And that goes for one side as much
as the other. We see Republicans who put all the blame on the other
guys, while their own guy can do no wrong. We see Democrats who turn
Republicans into the anti-christ, while their own leaders are knights
in shining armor.
All the name-calling, the hate-speech, to me it is depressing,
demoralizing.
I happen to be an old liberal. The new liberals, I often feel, have
gone too far. Whatever happened to the old-time "God and Country"
liberals like JFK and Truman. They were proud of our military, not
ashamed to quote the Bible, not ashamed of military service. At first,
when I listened to Obama, I said "At last" (an old time liberal).
Obama supports gay rights, but does not make an obsession of it.
Obama is liberal right down the line, but he also is patriotic, and
(so he seems) speaks proudly of our founding fathers, the high ideals
of jefferson and Washington, and LINCOLN.
Recently, Democrats virtually painted themselves into the corner on
Iraq.
The whole reason for the poor showing from about 2003 to 2006,
President Bush had quit listening to alternative voices, In fact, what
was polirtically expedient was disastrous for the war. The immolation
of Colin Powell paved the way for Bush increasing solidarity with his
own hard right constituency.
But in Iraq, those outside voices were more oftent han not providing
wisdom that Bush badly needed, and should have heeded. Utlimately,
the turn-around did not occur till the BIPARTISAN Iraq study Group
report, in 2006. Then, to clench the deal, DEMOCRATS
> Obama says he will drain the swamp of cynicism. Hey, I'm all for it.
> It's high-sounding rhetoric and I say more power to him, if he can do
> it.
> But what are the reasons for cynicism? One is that people don't live
> up to their high sounding ideals. And that goes for one side as much
> as the other. We see Republicans who put all the blame on the other
> guys, while their own guy can do no wrong. We see Democrats who turn
> Republicans into the anti-christ, while their own leaders are knights
> in shining armor.
> All the name-calling, the hate-speech, to me it is depressing,
> demoralizing.
> I happen to be an old liberal. The new liberals, I often feel, have
> gone too far. Whatever happened to the old-time "God and Country"
> liberals like JFK and Truman. They were proud of our military, not
> ashamed to quote the Bible, not ashamed of military service. At first,
> when I listened to Obama, I said "At last" (an old time liberal).
> Obama supports gay rights, but does not make an obsession of it.
> Obama is liberal right down the line, but he also is patriotic, and
> (so he seems) speaks proudly of our founding fathers, the high ideals
> of jefferson and Washington, and LINCOLN.
> Recently, Democrats virtually painted themselves into the corner on
> Iraq.
> The whole reason for the poor showing from about 2003 to 2006,
> President Bush had quit listening to alternative voices, In fact, what
> was polirtically expedient was disastrous for the war. The immolation
> of Colin Powell paved the way for Bush increasing solidarity with his
> own hard right constituency.
> But in Iraq, those outside voices were more oftent han not providing
> wisdom that Bush badly needed, and should have heeded. Utlimately,
> the turn-around did not occur till the BIPARTISAN Iraq study Group
> report, in 2006. Then, to clench the deal, DEMOCRATS
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:17 PM, robin <rs2...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Obama says he will drain the swamp of cynicism. Hey, I'm all for it. > It's high-sounding rhetoric and I say more power to him, if he can do > it.
> But what are the reasons for cynicism? One is that people don't live > up to their high sounding ideals. And that goes for one side as much > as the other. We see Republicans who put all the blame on the other > guys, while their own guy can do no wrong. We see Democrats who turn > Republicans into the anti-christ, while their own leaders are knights > in shining armor.
> All the name-calling, the hate-speech, to me it is depressing, > demoralizing.
> I happen to be an old liberal. The new liberals, I often feel, have > gone too far. Whatever happened to the old-time "God and Country" > liberals like JFK and Truman. They were proud of our military, not > ashamed to quote the Bible, not ashamed of military service. At first, > when I listened to Obama, I said "At last" (an old time liberal). > Obama supports gay rights, but does not make an obsession of it.
> Obama is liberal right down the line, but he also is patriotic, and > (so he seems) speaks proudly of our founding fathers, the high ideals > of jefferson and Washington, and LINCOLN.
> Recently, Democrats virtually painted themselves into the corner on > Iraq.
> The whole reason for the poor showing from about 2003 to 2006, > President Bush had quit listening to alternative voices, In fact, what > was polirtically expedient was disastrous for the war. The immolation > of Colin Powell paved the way for Bush increasing solidarity with his > own hard right constituency.
> But in Iraq, those outside voices were more oftent han not providing > wisdom that Bush badly needed, and should have heeded. Utlimately, > the turn-around did not occur till the BIPARTISAN Iraq study Group > report, in 2006. Then, to clench the deal, DEMOCRATS
-- ------------------------------------------------ Trance Gemini Irrationally held "truths" may be more harmful than reasoned errors. -- Thomas Henry Huxley
> Obama says he will drain the swamp of cynicism. Hey, I'm all for it.
> It's high-sounding rhetoric and I say more power to him, if he can do
> it.
He has aa lot of high-sounding rhtoric, and a sense of hope for the
United States I haven't seen since, well, I don't know. He is
compared to Kennedy, but I was too young to remember that election.
> But what are the reasons for cynicism? One is that people don't live
> up to their high sounding ideals. And that goes for one side as much
> as the other. We see Republicans who put all the blame on the other
> guys, while their own guy can do no wrong. We see Democrats who turn
> Republicans into the anti-christ, while their own leaders are knights
> in shining armor.
> All the name-calling, the hate-speech, to me it is depressing,
> demoralizing.
Exactly. I hope this election doesn't turn into a mud-slinging fight.
> I happen to be an old liberal. The new liberals, I often feel, have
> gone too far. Whatever happened to the old-time "God and Country"
> liberals like JFK and Truman. They were proud of our military, not
> ashamed to quote the Bible, not ashamed of military service. At first,
> when I listened to Obama, I said "At last" (an old time liberal).
> Obama supports gay rights, but does not make an obsession of it.
I'm an old time liberal (minus the God part!), too. But I am a
realist; I know a candidate without a professed belief in God doesn't
have a snowball's chance in the mythological hell of being elected
President.
> Obama is liberal right down the line, but he also is patriotic, and
> (so he seems) speaks proudly of our founding fathers, the high ideals
> of jefferson and Washington, and LINCOLN.
Someone has to get this country out of this mess, and I have high
hopes for Obama. He was my state senator and now my Congressional
Senator, and I hope he will be my President.
I work with people who are half my age (criminy! It's a half century
now!), and many of them have _never_ voted before. But they are
coming out in support of Obama.
Pay no attemtion to Omprem; he/she/it is just a general nuisance on
this group. No one takes this one seriously.
Obama doesn't strike me as a liberal with "more boots on the ground",
"hiring and firing based on faith" " empowering larger religious
charities " and lots of more holy shit slinging!!
By JENNIFER LOVEN, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 20 minutes ago
July 1, 2008
CHICAGO - Reaching out to evangelical voters, Democratic presidential
candidate Barack Obama is announcing plans to expand President Bush's
program steering federal social service dollars to religious groups
and — in a move sure to cause controversy — support some ability to
hire and fire based on faith.
Obama was unveiling his approach to getting religious charities more
involved in government anti-poverty programs during a tour and remarks
Tuesday in Zanesville, Ohio, at Eastside Community Ministry, which
provides food, clothes, youth ministry and other services.
"The challenges we face today ... are simply too big for government to
solve alone," Obama was to say, according to a prepared text of his
remarks obtained by The Associated Press. "We need all hands on deck."
Obama's announcement is part of a series of events leading up to
Friday's Fourth of July holiday that are focused on American values.
The Democratic presidential candidate spent Monday talking about his
vision of patriotism in the battleground state of Missouri. By
twinning that with Tuesday's talk about faith in another battleground
state, he was attempting to settle debate in two key areas where his
beliefs have come under question while also trying to make inroads
with constituencies traditionally loyal to Republicans.
But Obama's support for letting religious charities that receive
federal funding consider religion in employment decisions could invite
a storm of protest from those who view such faith requirements as
discrimination.
Obama does not support requiring religious tests for recipients of aid
nor using federal money to proselytize, according to a campaign fact
sheet. He also only supports letting religious institutions hire and
fire based on faith in the non-taxypayer funded portions of their
activities, said a senior adviser to the campaign, who spoke on
condition of anonymity to more freely describe the new policy.
Bush supports broader freedoms for taxpayer-funded religious
charities. But he never got Congress to go along so he has conducted
the program through administrative actions and executive orders.
David Kuo, a conservative Christian who was deputy director of Bush's
Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives until 2003 and later
became a critic of Bush's commitment to the cause, said Obama's
position on hiring has the potential to be a major "Sister Souljah
moment" for his campaign.
This is a reference to Bill Clinton's accusation in his 1992
presidential campaign that the hip hop artist incited violence against
whites. Because Clinton said this before a black audience, it fed into
an image of him as a bold politician who was willing to take risks and
refused to pander.
"This is a massive deal," said Kuo, who is not an Obama adviser or
supporter but was contacted by the campaign to review the new plan.
Kuo called Obama's approach smart, impressive and well thought-out but
took a wait-and-see attitude about whether it would deliver.
"When it comes to promises to help the poor, promises are easy," said
Kuo, who wrote a 2006 book describing his frustration at what he
called Bush's lackluster enthusiasm for the program. "The question is
commitment."
Obama proposes to elevate the program to a "moral center" of his
administration, by renaming it the Council for Faith-Based and
Neighborhood Partnerships, and changing training from occasional huge
conferences to empowering larger religious charities to mentor smaller
ones in their communities.
Saying social service spending has been shortchanged under Bush, he
also proposes a $500 million per year program to provide summer
learning for 1 million poor children to help close achievement gaps
with white and wealthier students. A campaign fact sheet said he would
pay for it by better managing surplus federal properties, reducing
growth in the federal travel budget and streamlining the federal
procurement process.
Like Bush, Obama was arguing that religious organizations can and
should play a bigger role in serving the poor and meeting other social
needs. But while Bush argued that the strength of religious charities
lies primarily in shared religious identity between workers and
recipients, Obama was to tout the benefits of their "bottom-up"
approach.
"Because they're so close to the people, they're well-placed to offer
help," he was to say.
He also planned to talk bluntly about the genesis of his Christian
faith in his work as a community organizer in Chicago, and its
importance to him now.
"In time, I came to see faith as being both a personal commitment to
Christ and a commitment to my community; that while I could sit in
church and pray all I want, I wouldn't be fulfilling God's will unless
I went out and did the Lord's work," he was to say.
On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 6:30 AM, TLC <tlc.tere...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Obama doesn't strike me as a liberal with "more boots on the ground", > "hiring and firing based on faith" " empowering larger religious > charities " and lots of more holy shit slinging!!
> By JENNIFER LOVEN, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 20 minutes ago
> July 1, 2008
> CHICAGO - Reaching out to evangelical voters, Democratic presidential > candidate Barack Obama is announcing plans to expand President Bush's > program steering federal social service dollars to religious groups > and — in a move sure to cause controversy — support some ability to > hire and fire based on faith.
> Obama was unveiling his approach to getting religious charities more > involved in government anti-poverty programs during a tour and remarks > Tuesday in Zanesville, Ohio, at Eastside Community Ministry, which > provides food, clothes, youth ministry and other services.
> "The challenges we face today ... are simply too big for government to > solve alone," Obama was to say, according to a prepared text of his > remarks obtained by The Associated Press. "We need all hands on deck."
> Obama's announcement is part of a series of events leading up to > Friday's Fourth of July holiday that are focused on American values.
> The Democratic presidential candidate spent Monday talking about his > vision of patriotism in the battleground state of Missouri. By > twinning that with Tuesday's talk about faith in another battleground > state, he was attempting to settle debate in two key areas where his > beliefs have come under question while also trying to make inroads > with constituencies traditionally loyal to Republicans.
> But Obama's support for letting religious charities that receive > federal funding consider religion in employment decisions could invite > a storm of protest from those who view such faith requirements as > discrimination.
> Obama does not support requiring religious tests for recipients of aid > nor using federal money to proselytize, according to a campaign fact > sheet. He also only supports letting religious institutions hire and > fire based on faith in the non-taxypayer funded portions of their > activities, said a senior adviser to the campaign, who spoke on > condition of anonymity to more freely describe the new policy.
> Bush supports broader freedoms for taxpayer-funded religious > charities. But he never got Congress to go along so he has conducted > the program through administrative actions and executive orders.
> David Kuo, a conservative Christian who was deputy director of Bush's > Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives until 2003 and later > became a critic of Bush's commitment to the cause, said Obama's > position on hiring has the potential to be a major "Sister Souljah > moment" for his campaign.
> This is a reference to Bill Clinton's accusation in his 1992 > presidential campaign that the hip hop artist incited violence against > whites. Because Clinton said this before a black audience, it fed into > an image of him as a bold politician who was willing to take risks and > refused to pander.
> "This is a massive deal," said Kuo, who is not an Obama adviser or > supporter but was contacted by the campaign to review the new plan.
> Kuo called Obama's approach smart, impressive and well thought-out but > took a wait-and-see attitude about whether it would deliver.
> "When it comes to promises to help the poor, promises are easy," said > Kuo, who wrote a 2006 book describing his frustration at what he > called Bush's lackluster enthusiasm for the program. "The question is > commitment."
> Obama proposes to elevate the program to a "moral center" of his > administration, by renaming it the Council for Faith-Based and > Neighborhood Partnerships, and changing training from occasional huge > conferences to empowering larger religious charities to mentor smaller > ones in their communities.
> Saying social service spending has been shortchanged under Bush, he > also proposes a $500 million per year program to provide summer > learning for 1 million poor children to help close achievement gaps > with white and wealthier students. A campaign fact sheet said he would > pay for it by better managing surplus federal properties, reducing > growth in the federal travel budget and streamlining the federal > procurement process.
> Like Bush, Obama was arguing that religious organizations can and > should play a bigger role in serving the poor and meeting other social > needs. But while Bush argued that the strength of religious charities > lies primarily in shared religious identity between workers and > recipients, Obama was to tout the benefits of their "bottom-up" > approach.
> "Because they're so close to the people, they're well-placed to offer > help," he was to say.
> He also planned to talk bluntly about the genesis of his Christian > faith in his work as a community organizer in Chicago, and its > importance to him now.
> "In time, I came to see faith as being both a personal commitment to > Christ and a commitment to my community; that while I could sit in > church and pray all I want, I wouldn't be fulfilling God's will unless > I went out and did the Lord's work," he was to say.
It's July 4th, we can talk politics.
OK, what happened to 'those who can not do, teach?'
Are DNC's youths that lame, falling for a professor?
And what happened to the older Democratic party's delegates who have a
democratic complex who endorsed Obama Barack then having him opted out
of public funding that he said he wouldn't? Don't they have a second
thought? I like to know.
On Jul 4, 2:16 am, Medusa <Medusa4...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Obama says he will drain the swamp of cynicism. Hey, I'm all for it.
> > It's high-sounding rhetoric and I say more power to him, if he can do
> > it.
> He has aa lot of high-sounding rhtoric, and a sense of hope for the
> United States I haven't seen since, well, I don't know. He is
> compared to Kennedy, but I was too young to remember that election.
> > But what are the reasons for cynicism? One is that people don't live
> > up to their high sounding ideals. And that goes for one side as much
> > as the other. We see Republicans who put all the blame on the other
> > guys, while their own guy can do no wrong. We see Democrats who turn
> > Republicans into the anti-christ, while their own leaders are knights
> > in shining armor.
> > All the name-calling, the hate-speech, to me it is depressing,
> > demoralizing.
> Exactly. I hope this election doesn't turn into a mud-slinging fight.
> > I happen to be an old liberal. The new liberals, I often feel, have
> > gone too far. Whatever happened to the old-time "God and Country"
> > liberals like JFK and Truman. They were proud of our military, not
> > ashamed to quote the Bible, not ashamed of military service. At first,
> > when I listened to Obama, I said "At last" (an old time liberal).
> > Obama supports gay rights, but does not make an obsession of it.
> I'm an old time liberal (minus the God part!), too. But I am a
> realist; I know a candidate without a professed belief in God doesn't
> have a snowball's chance in the mythological hell of being elected
> President.
> > Obama is liberal right down the line, but he also is patriotic, and
> > (so he seems) speaks proudly of our founding fathers, the high ideals
> > of jefferson and Washington, and LINCOLN.
> Someone has to get this country out of this mess, and I have high
> hopes for Obama. He was my state senator and now my Congressional
> Senator, and I hope he will be my President.
> I work with people who are half my age (criminy! It's a half century
> now!), and many of them have _never_ voted before. But they are
> coming out in support of Obama.
> Pay no attemtion to Omprem; he/she/it is just a general nuisance on
> this group. No one takes this one seriously.
